The Collective

The leader Agamemnon was supposed to portray, didn't go as it was expected, as he also put his head down when he realized that he has lost the war; basically letting the readers know, he had given up  (line 27) " let us run away with our ships to the beloved land of our fathers... ". We discussed in class that, it could be that Agamemnom might have tried to trick the army into leaving or staying, just to test their loyalty. Which means he doubts his own men. The only person that stood up was Diomedes. Diomedes stood up and said " Son of Atreus: I will be to first to fight with your folly... ", and Agamemnom praised him. The characteristic that I picked up on from Agamemnom is, that he is superficial to everyone around him. Thus, making him an incompetent leader that he shows everyone, within the book as well as outside (us the viewers). 

In book 9 the war is still going on but it seems that the war is turning towards one side. The Trojans are pushing the Achaeans back into their ships. Agamemnon starts crying thinking the war is a failure. However Diomedes insist to keep fighting along with Nestor and Achilles,  but Achilles does not want to join back into the war. Achilles fears the consequence that his mother has told him which are life or glory. That is when he says “ Mother tells me,the immortal goddess Thetis with her glistening feet,that two fates bear me on to the day of death.If I hold out here and I lay siege to Troy,my journey home is gone, but my glory never dies.If I voyage back to the fatherland I love,my pride, my glory dies ” what I think this means is he can live a good peaceful life if he does not fight in the war but he will not have glory which is the emotional feeling fighting for your people/beliefs but in exchange you die. In the end Achilles joins back into the war to avenge his fri...

I was pleasantly surprised in Book 9 with Agamemnon.  I initially dubbed him as arrogant, immature, and an all around jerk.  However, I was taken aback when he finally owned up to being irrational and insulting Achilles. Agamemnon says, "Old sir, there was nothing amiss in your telling of my blindness.  Deluded I was: I admit it ... But since I was blinded, a slave to my wretched passions, I'm willing to make amends, to pay boundless compensation." (9.115-120).  Agamemnon proceeds to list off all the treasures he promises to Achilles if he comes back to fight. I couldn't help but let out a sigh of relief, a "Finally!"  My question is: Is Agamemnon's apology overdue?  I can't help but think that Agamemnon has indirectly (or directly) caused the state that the Achaeans are in.   The Achaeans have been driven all the way to their ships, and their moral is lower than ever.  I wonder if this would be the case if Agamemnon had not angered Achilles....

once Zeus leaves the battle field thinking that no other gods are going to get involved with the war. Poseidon realizes now he has a good chance to he rushes to the battle field and gives Aias courage to fight. he realizes that its a god and he rushes into battle. I think Zeus should have just stayed he knows  the gods wont go up against him. by him leaving it gave a opening for Poseidon to jump right into action.

Although Book 10 did not include many important events in regards to the war going on, there was a few things that I found interesting. Beginning on line 299, the scene started in the perspective of the Trojans, who were trying to gather a man up for the task of spying on the opposing forces. A man named Dolon offers to go on ahead in exchange for a chariot in his name after the war is over. After that is said and done, Dolon is swiftly captured by Odysseus and Diomedes, who saw him coming the instant that he left his camp. Without a second thought, Dolon proceeds to spill the beans on everything the Achaians would want to know about their enemy, including army size, battle plans, positioning etc. Dolon had willingly given all this information in hopes of being left alive but Diomedes decides otherwise and executes him once he is useless. I believe this scene is important because it shows that the morale of some of the Trojan men is not very high if they are willing to leak information...

In the beginning of  book 10 of The Iliad, the Achaians gathered to figure out how they should proceed with the imposing threat of the Trojans.While reading this chapter, some questions that plagued me were ; Why were some Achaians such as the Son of Tydeus, Diomedes and the resourceful Odysseus sleeping so soundly, while others such as Agamemnon and Menelaos so restless? They all new of the of near by threat to their community, so why were some more worried then others? Another questioned that occurred to me during my reading was in book 10, line 240 ; Why was Nestor so frightened for Menelaos when he asked Diomedes to choose someone to accompany him to spy on the Trojans? I feel that the Trojans will lose the war due to lack of unity, Hektor bribed one of his men to spy on the Achaians without suggesting a companion for him. While the Achaians sent out two men because they know that there is power in unity.

In this book, we finally get an image of Agamemnon in battle. In seemingly every other book, Agamemnon's ability to lead an army in any capacity was questioned, especially in the numerous occasions where Achilles expressed his anger at how Agamemnon always stayed back during battles. Specifically, I thought back to Book 9.330-332 "From all these we took forth treasures, goodly and numerous, and we would bring them back, and give them to Agamemnon, Atreus' son, while he, waiting back besides the swift ships, would take them..." Based off this quote, and several other times where Achilles expressed his anger at Agamemnon never participating in battles, I got the idea that Agamemnon never actually engaged in battles, and only let his armies do all of this work. This book, however, clearly shows Agamemnon bravely leading his army into battle. This seems to be the first time that Agamemnon is shown in a good light, as opposed to constantly being shown as someone that is in...

In Book 12 of the Iliad, there is a foreshadowing or omen I found interesting. The Trojans were about to march down to tear down the Achaean’s wall to get to their ship, when an eagle with a   red snake appeared in the sky. Homer writes, “As they were urgent to cross a bird sign had appeared to them…” (line 200-206). The warrior took this as a sign to retreat and go back. The Trojans interpreted the bird as the Achaeans and themselves as the snake that falls still fighting. What surprised me about this scene was that when everyone was scared and wanted to retreat, Hector took this as a sign to keep fighting for his people. Hector says, “One bird sign is best: to fight in defense of our country” (line 243). In other words, Hector is reminding his men why they are fighting for in the first place. Homer is in a way depicting Hector as a nationalist and he stands true to his word.

Both book 9 and 10 takes place on the same night. In book 9, Nestor suggests that it was would be a good idea to ask Achilles to return to the war. Seeing the wisdom of this idea, Agamemnon decides to offer Achilles a bunch of gifts on the condition that he return to the battle. The king selects some of the best men including Odysseus, Great Ajax and Phoenix to deliver the proposal to Achilleus. Achilleus felt insulted by Agamemnon with the idea. Achilleus only wanted restoration of the honor and glory he has worked so hard for. He felt like Agamemnon has embarrassed him. Later on the night, in book 10, Nestor suggests sending a spy to infiltrate the trojan rank and Diomedes quickly volunteers for the role. The two achaean spies proceed to the Thracian camp, killing twelve soldiers. Based on these two books, Nestor seem to have a significant role with certain decisions. He seem to be very wise and people tend to listen to his instructions. I think a lot of people respects Nestor.

The character Achilles  I find to be interesting in how he is introduced at the beginning of book 9. The way he is introduced in the beginning and how he is has almost a relaxed demeanor in the midst of all this war. He is singing of hero from the past and seems to be chasing the admiration similarly. When the set of men sent by Agamemnon had tried to persuade Achilles to join the fight, I initially had the belief that he would not be persuaded by the goods and spoils that were proposed to him. However, when the glory of being a hero among the ranks of all men, and the hero of stories ect, at this point I had believed it would be the reason for him to succumbed to the persuasion. Achilles response to this was interesting, he did not flat out deny the glory that would be received from aiding in the war, but rather he questioned the purpose of the war. This has me to believe the Achilles has a idealistic view of what his  legacy should be based on. Meaning, that not only should ...

I noticed a great many animal similes in this chapter. My theory is that Homer wants the audience at this point to really root for the Achians, and so continually compares their leader to the king of the jungle. It begins at line 113: Agamemnon is like a lion, stripping his prey of their armor likened to ripping out the soft heart of a young deer. Even if the doe is near, she will not help because of fear- just as the Trojans were too afraid of the Argives at this point in the battle story. At 129 Agamemnon “rose like a lion” upon Peisandros and Hippolochos. Line 172 the trojans are compared to cattle, and the lion, Agamemnon, scares the whole heard and then horrifically kills them one by one as they flee. Line 239- Agamemnon, raging like a lion, beheaded? Iphidamas. The trojans then have a series of similes to dogs and other weaker animals which goes with the idea that the audience sees the Trojans as having more inadequate animal instincts: Starting at line 292 Hektor is described a...

Its interesting to look at the relationship between gods. Zeus is the mightiest god who none of the other gods dare to anger. He favorites the Trojans and gives them information to help win the war. But as soon as Zeus leaves the battlefield, Poseidon gives Idomeneus a raging power to win the war for the Achians. It seems as though Poseidon defies Zeus's wishes. Which is a bold thing to do considering how feared he is and how much power he holds among gods. It says a lot about his charter.

At this point there is a lot going on. The Greeks wake up in a morning of war cry from the gods. “Zeus sent down in speed to the fast ships of Achians the wearisome goodness of hate, holding in her hands the protect of battle”. Agamemnon was slaughtering many Trojans at first. Then Zeus sends iris to tell hector to pull back until Agamemnon is wounded and then power will come in hectors favor. However, Paris shoots diomeds with an arrow and Odysseus gets stabbed by socus. Hector returns to battle field and the Achaeans begin to lose their hope and moral. Moreover, I think the role of the gods in increased in the battle compared to before because first Zeus sends Irish to advise hector, and then the rains blood on the battle field.

In Book 10 the character Nestor seems to become a more vital part of the story. He seems pretty important since on line 73 he is referred to as "Nestor,shepherd of people" and as the book goes on alot of people seem to have some respect for this guy. I'm not really sure who he is but i picture him as some wise old man who everyone follows him and if i'm reading correctly i think he is some type of recruiter and he goes on a recruitment mission or something so i expect him to do something important in the near future.

The character of Nestor continues to be a far more reliable character in this story, making decisions that make much more sense to us than any of those made by the others, as well as his demeanor and the way he commands his men. The stark contrast between him and the other main characters of the Iliad force me to consider two different ideas. Either this thought out human character is in fact alien and odd to the Greeks, which given their actual history wouldn't make too much sense, or Nestor is the only true human character in this story, which makes one wonder why the others act so...abnormally. The conclusion I have arrived at is that the heroes of the siege of Troy are in fact a series of assumptions based on the Greek mythology surrounding the age of heroes. Homer's portrayal of Achilles and Agamemnon may not make sense to us, but it may make sense in the context of them being heroes, and the possibility that the Greeks see heroes as almost a different race, totally differ...

Nestor is a really intriguing character. As we continue to read, I can see how he has grown, at the beginning of the book I thought he was just another counselor of King Agamemnon, but now I can see that he is so much more than that. Throughout the story, Nestor's wisdom continues to save the Greeks from the war. The first time was when he challenged King Agamemnon's idea of testing his army, and then he orchestrated and sent the 3 generals to talk to Achilles (which was not successful), But Nestor knows that the only way to win the Trojan War is with Achilles by their side. When Achilles sends Patroklos (Book 11 - 605 to 617) to talk to Nestor, Nestor sees an opportunity and takes advantage of the relationship between Achilles and Patroklos. He tries to convince Patroklos to get Achilles back into the war (Book 11 - 655 to 676) and (Lines 785 - 802) And I think he is in the right direction, if anything happens to Patroklos , Achilles will definitely join the fight again.

Book 9 of the Iliad was very interesting, as I was reading it and as we discussed in class.  In Book 9, the Achaians were driven back to their ships by the Trojans and they sat there declaring defeat. Agamemnenon talks about a lot of things and eventually proposes that they retreat and just sail home to Greece because he had already lost hope. Diomedes stands up and tells Agammemnon that if he wants to leave, he can leave but the rest of them will stay and fight. He adds that if the rest want to leave, they can leave with Agammemnon but he and Sthelenos will stay and fight until they see the fall of Troy. Nestor agrees with Diomedes and tells Agammemnon to reconcile with Achilleus. Agammemnon promises plenty of gifts, including Briseis and then sends Phoinix, Odysseus, and Ajax to Achilleus to tell him of Agammemnon’s offer. The three men go to Achilleus and they find him playing the harp with Patroklos. Odysseus tells him of the offer but Achilleus immediate...

The way that the gods seem to be treating each other in these books in relation to this war seems nearly unthinkable. Zeus, who was shown to practically bend the knee to a lowly sea nymph, asserted himself and changed the tide of battle, showing that despite how easy it is to nail him down and get him to do something, he is yet king of the gods and commanding of their respect. Despite this, the gods do not actually seem interested in a certain side winning in the way one would expect. There is no care for ideas or nation or even who worships the most, as we know these cities all worship all the same gods, even if troy uses some different names. This seems like a fun game to these immortal beings, and even then it would appear most of the time they are apathetic to this bloody conflict. To compare the actions of some of the gods to the inactivity of the rest, it would appear despite the king of the gods weighing in on it, this 9 year war is naught but a passing moment in an eternity of ...

In books 3-4 both sides are trying to end the war by doing a truce. However the gods engage in their own duels. Zeus argues that Menelaus won the duel and thus the war shall end, but Hera disagrees and also Athena tries to stir the war back again but convincing an archer to aim at Menelaus. In books 5-6 the fightings between the two sides continue where they try to come to a agreement through exchanges but like before the truce did not work out. In books 7-8 Zeus seems to be frustarted and prevents any gods from interfering any longer. Hera tries to interfere again but Poseidon tells her Zeus is the strongest and you don’t want to feel his wraith. I find it strange that both sides wants to come to a truce but at the same time both sides just can’t. It is like two kids arguing and it just won’t stop even when they want to.  

Zeus shows off his power and authority again in lines 1-27 of book 8. He tells the other gods to not assist the Trojans or the Danaans. If any went against his decree they would be punished by being sent to Tartaros, which was like a prison. Zeus reminds the other gods repeatedly that he is the strongest of them all and that they should all obey him. On lines 198-211, Hera has enough and calls out to Poseidon and asks him if he is just going to stand by while the Danaans, humans who have worshipped him and have given him plenty of offerings, died in battle. Poseidon responded " Hera, reckless of word, what sort of thing have you spoken? I would not be willing that all the rest of us fight with Zeus, the son of Kronos, since he is so much the greater." (line 210-211) He basically said that even if the gods that supported the Danaans were able to hold off Zeus for a while and help out the Trojans, they would incur the wrath of Zeus afterwards and no one was willing to do that. ...

The majority of book 8 focused on Zeus and his interactions with the other gods, but the part I found most interesting about this section was the shift in Zeus' feelings towards the battle and towards the other gods. Prior to this book, Zeus had simply done everything the other gods asked of him, without doing anything for his own direct gain. Although it isn't exactly clear why he chose to prevent the other gods from helping either side in the battle, the quote in Book 8.450-451, "In the whole account, such is my strength and my hand so invincible, not all gods who are on Olympos could turn me backward..." shows that this might just be a way for Zeus to show off his ultimate strength over the other gods. He might have felt weak because of how he was manipulated by the other gods, so it looks like this whole situation is just for him to remind the other gods how powerful he is.

It's interesting to see what grief can do to characters. This entire war has been about getting Helen back from Paris and has lasted almost a decade. When it is announced that the war will finally be settled by having the strongest warriors from both sides face each other, all of the Achaians are terrified to fight because they know that they are no match for Hektor. And while everyone is afraid, it is Menelaus who challenges him. Even Achilles who is stronger than Menelaus wouldn't dare go up against him as it is a certain death. But Menelaus fears nothing. He's been fighting for so long that he just wants this whole thing to be over. His grief has given him a fool's courage. There's no way he could've beat Hektor but because there is so much anger and sorrow within him, it makes him impulsively act upon his feelings. If Agamemnon hadn't talked some sense into him, he would've been mad enough to actually go through with it.

As I was reading book 4, I was surprised to discover that the gods also have weaknesses. Homer describes the Greek gods as embodying the same passion and flaws as the immortals or humans. The only difference is that the gods never die and therefore can continue to make mistakes despite their choices. In Book 4, I got the impression that Hera, Zeus wife was manipulative and devious. She wants to see Troy destroyed. She even says, “Of all the cities there are three that are dearest to my own heart: Argos and Sparta and Mykenai…” (line 51-52). I think that she would have perhaps changed her mind if her son, Hephaestus would advise her otherwise as done in Book 1. I really thought that Hera would have side with her husband and want the war to be over, but instead convinces him to send Athena to restart the war. It is clear that Homor did this to intentionally continue to novel. I felt as though Zeus depiction in this book is not as strong as in previous ones. Zeus says, “Go n...